Spiritual Identity

Understanding our Spiritual Identity is so important. On today's episode, Lele and Juli share how they processed their departure from vocational ministry and the effect it had on their Spiritual Identity. Knowing that our identity is defined by Jesus rather than by what we do is critical. Otherwise we can attach our worth to things that shift and change like our careers, family, appearance, finances, etc... Our Identity is who are we in Christ who never changes.

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Transcript

Juli: 0:00

Hi friends. And welcome back to my Tennessee table. So happy to be at the table with Lee Lee again today. We've already shared a little bit about our, story and also a little bit about us professionally. So today we're going to revisit that, that both of us willingly and volitionally had walked away from vocational ministry for different reasons, each one of us. and whether that was intentional or not, and whether you feel prepared or not. Life changes can really kind of take a hit on our spiritual identity. And so Lili, I just wanted to ask you and your decision to walk away from, vocational ministry for a while, who knows how long, right? What motivated that decision? how are you now kind of sitting in that decision and, and our stories are similar yet different. So we're going to hear your story on this about spiritual identity first.

Lele: 0:51

So I would say. You know, I have been in vocational ministry off and on since I was like 18 years old. So I've worked for a church. right when I graduated from high school, I jumped into ministry. I spent a summer in China and then after that I spent my summers working in student ministry, moved to Nashville to work at a church doing student ministry, worship ministry. and then I just continued in that path. And so, I, well, I did take some time off here and there as I had a kid and then had another kid and another kid, three children who are so wonderful. Part of it is them really. And I know a lot of women kind of face this, but it had gotten to a point where Our lives, just felt so hurried and so rushed and I was overwhelmed all the time. and I just, we had gone away on a vacation to. Wyoming. We're in Yellowstone and three kids and me, my youngest was two maybe. And we were just hiking and it was beautiful. And I had no cell phone service, which was beautiful and wonderful and a gift. And it was like a week of really hard Being unreachable and sometimes the Lord, at least in my case, just has to remove all the distractions in order to really get my attention. And I really felt during the course of that week that God was just saying, Lili, it's time to step away. It's time to step away. And I was like I No, no, no, I had gotten to a point, in ministry where I was, I was finally doing like my dream job. I was the women's pastor at our church. I had been doing women's ministry along with connections ministry, which connections was my paid job. And I was just doing women's stuff. Just voluntarily. And then it turned into, Hey, we're going to hire you and you're going to be the woman's pastor. And so this was just all, it was like, I've only been doing this for three years. Like, this is my dream. Like, how can I just walk away from this? But when God tells you to do something, you do it, but I wasn't quite ready to give it up. So I stuck it out for probably six more months. And over the course of those six months, it was just kind of like. It was just push and pull. It was like, Oh, I know I'm supposed to, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not supposed to be doing this. But then I was like, Oh, but like, it's just when you're in ministry, if any of you guys are listening and you're in ministry, you'll get this, but it's like, you just see like life change and just this amazing things that God is doing, like in a ministry and through you and not through you, through the other people that are around you. And it's such a gift. And it's hard to just be like, Oh, I'm just going to give this all up But at the same time, I knew I had. Two daughters and a son and they weren't getting the best of me. They were getting the leftovers and they were getting a tired mom who was just kind of Mean and grumpy all the time and I thought, what good is all of this that I'm doing here if I'm not pouring into my children at home? And so I really think in the end, that's what just got me to my breaking point where I had to just walk in and say, I'm so sorry, but I'm resigning. And my boss, I think he was just caught out of left field. I don't think he saw it coming at all. And he was like. Why? Okay. I mean, is there anything like, is there anything I can do? And I was like, no, no, this is, this is me. And this is just what God's calling me to. And, and it's, it's really beautiful the way I've seen. Him provide somebody step in that role. That's doing an amazing job who I love and care for and I Get to sit across the table from her sometimes over lunch or coffee and literally I just I'm like just dump it Just dump it all on me. I'm here. There's nobody on this planet who understands where you're at more than me so just blah and she'll just she'll just give it to me and And I think oh what a gift now I get to be a gift To the person that you know, it used to be me and how much would I have loved somebody just to be like hey Just sit here and just just throw up on me word vomit all over me and tell me all the hard stuff That's going on right now because I get it. And so I hope that I'm a gift to her. But Yeah, that's kind of how I got to

Juli: 5:13

where, where I gave it up. And this is the part of the story that is different for a lot of us who change roles or we change, careers. You continue to. Attend and serve and love and your children go to, and your husband serves and loves the church that you served at, but you no longer sit in that titled pastor role. You're still a pastor. So that's different. Yes. So tell us how. And how is that, how is that becoming, I know early on, I don't want to take your story early on. It was more difficult than it maybe it is now. So share about that.

Lele: 5:51

I, it has been difficult. It still is difficult. I would say that there are not many people who do what I'm doing. If you step away from a job in ministry at a church, you. You, you don't stay at that church. It's weird. It's strange. It feels awkward. And it's just kind of like, it's just not something people do. And so for whatever reason we have stayed and I, sometimes I'm like, why are we here? And sometimes I'm like, I know why we're here. This is good. And then the next week I'll think, why are we here? I'm feeling frustrated again. and for me really. My frustration comes with just not, not knowing where I fit in anymore. It's, I served in women's ministry for so long that that's where I poured my heart and my soul. And that's where I really feel I'm the most gifted. But that is a weird space for me to be in. If I have like walked past any women's event or walked through the room as There's been women's Bible studies. I just feel completely uncomfortable. And I think. Why this is important and why this is kind of coming up is because we're talking about spiritual identity today. And I think really stepping away from that job, that role, and then continuing to stay at that church, you kind of are like at a crossroads of like, who am I anymore? What am I supposed to be doing? And so for me, my spiritual identity has just kind of been like, whew, thrown up in the air. And it's just like dangling up there. And I'm going, okay, what, what am I supposed to be doing? Where am I supposed to be? Who am I anymore when, if I'm not this person, if I'm not in this role and that's where being at that same church. And not having that name tag on is really

Juli: 7:45

strange. Yes. We were talking off mic and prep for now, um, we were talking yesterday and just off the top of our heads, we had said something about identity. Your identity is different than your role. So our identity is who we are and our role is what we do. But what I'm hearing you say, those. And they can become so closely aligned or enmeshed that one changes or one is tweaked in a way. And, and like there goes the apple cart, right? So, and our identity is tied to our beliefs, our purpose, our thoughts, largely about ourselves, but our spiritual identity about God and who we are in relation to him. And somehow that role, whether it's you're a mom now and your kids have gone to college or you were in a pastoral role, but, but now you aren't. Um, you volunteered at a certain place, but now that for some reason that nonprofit no longer exists, you're kind of left without the do part. And we feel as though our identity has been our spiritual identity has been taken along with it. And so just kind of that shakedown of figuring out and not figuring out, I should say, remembering who we are in Christ can be really difficult. Yes.

Lele: 9:02

Yeah. And what's funny is you're my neighbor and we moved around the time that I had resigned from my position and unknowingly you had just moved and resigned from your position in ministry because you're relocating. So your story is a little bit different than mine in that way. So tell, Tell everybody about,

Juli: 9:22

yes. And interestingly enough, you and I didn't come to these like light bulb moments until we started, talking about doing a podcast together. And there's again, more to that conversation. We keep saying that, our, our time in Washington was awesome. I loved it. Enjoyed serving at our church so much. We have wonderful friends. They're still love the challenge of ministry Love the fulfillment love the like you're saying The wonderful joyous moments where people realize who they are Created in Christ and watching them move and that gifting and that assurance just it was just awesome loved it I didn't really have a timetable for leaving By any means. And then, my husband and myself had, the call to relocate. And I thought, Oh, my gracious. So we knew that several months prior to sharing with our congregation. So we had probably about three or four months to sit on that. And the Lord gave me kind of like, a prep, like, okay, girl. You should probably pray a little bit about this whole, moving out of this role that it might, have an impact on you. And I thought, Oh, okay, well that's really smart God as usual. So I, I began to pray on that and then all the action, right? Like selling a home and the timing of sharing with our family at the church there and loading things up. Et cetera, the flurry happened, right? So we move, we get here, we were here about two weeks and some of our kids and a grandchild were going to come visit the same. We didn't have beds. We'd have kitchen table and it was pre post post COVID. So you couldn't get a bed. I mean, you couldn't get a washer, you know, it was just the slow, not anyone's fault, just what was happening. So that was kind of a flurry. And so being kind of out of rhythm. Um, vocationally wasn't such a big deal cause it seemed appropriate. You do when you move. Well then that first year, fast forward, was a blast. We had 32 visitors lately in the first year that we were here, 28 stayed at our house. So it was like B and B banks, B and B. We loved it. Changing sheets, going downtown, going to Franklin, cooking, dinners with people that love that. But that kind of settled, you know, got to a little equilibrium and then I started to feel that. kind of the daily rhythm, like, okay, like now what do I do? The physical part. If you get up, you get ready, you have your tea and your coffee with your people at home, you go to work, talk about dinner, who's doing what. None of that was happening. So this would be the first time that. I have no kids at home and I'm not working. It was either one or the other before. So I started to feel pretty unsettled in that. And as you know, in Bible study on Tuesday, we were praying like, what does Julie do? What should she be doing? I applied for a couple of jobs. Um, that didn't happen, which I think praise the Lord. They weren't supposed to still unsettled, but beyond, I kind of thought about this, how that layer of physical went a little bit deeper and made a, uh, larger impact, because it started to affect not just my daily rhythm, but affected who I believe me to be. Again, we talked about identity being thoughts and beliefs and purposes. And I started to think, well, maybe, maybe I'm not valuable anymore. Maybe this gap in my resume is because I'm not, I don't know what the word is, good enough to contribute anymore. Perhaps my purpose Was wrong in the first place. All those challenges to who God says we are, because it's again attached to the do of what I wasn't doing, not of who I was. So I've had some really difficult time in that in those spaces. Now where I sit. I don't want to go to work.

Lele: 13:01

Now you've gotten so used to it. So

Juli: 13:04

now I'm like, Hey, this is awesome. I'm riding with it. I'm, I'm enjoying that. But, but it is a challenge and it did bring me back to just a second. Julie, you need to get back to who you are in Christ that I'd liken it to like when we have our babies. They haven't done anything for us. I mean, they didn't, work for us, contribute to us, tell us they love us, tell they didn't tell us they loved us. They just are our children and we love them. We love the mess out of them. And I think that's who we are to the Lord. We're his children. Right? Some of those words that come to mind, chosen, forgiven, you're a treasure, you're a masterpiece, you're a citizen of heaven, or saved. Those things don't matter on what I'm doing. And I, and I don't know what the difficulty is So how, how are you doing? How are you doing in the resting in who he says you are? I'm not saying that we're not called to service. We absolutely are in our spiritual maturity. That's gonna be a step that we get to and we should be doing it, but it may look different than what we thought it was or want it to be. So how are you feeling in the do part?

Lele: 14:12

Yeah. I like how you worded it. How am I doing in the resting. of that. And I would say when I, when I resigned, I really felt the Holy Spirit say to me, I'm going to remind you of who you are. We're going to take a step back and I'm going to remind you of who you are. And I feel like over the last, it's been two years now since I stepped back from that role. And I do feel like God has reminded me of who I am. You know, all those. Words chosen, daughter loved, forgiven, um, there's such a gift in there. So, you know, you just let them just kind of sit there on you. But the reality of like living every day in that is still difficult. You know, the enemy just wants nothing more than for us to forget that the second we wake up. So I think wrestling through that kind of. The enemy wants one thing. God wants me to remember these things. Like, how do I do that every day? What does that look like in reality is some days I feel, yeah, like I know exactly who I am in Christ and I feel completely confident walking in that. And some days, like even today, I feel I've found myself just doubting myself. Like, what am I doing? Like, am I even, do I even have a place anymore? Like. You know those kind of things and you know, it just I don't know it just as highs and lows of it And I think that's part of the Christian walk That's part of our walk of faith is just even on the days when it's hard just trusting that God will just get us through And then tomorrow might be better and tomorrow, you know, I'll rest better I don't know but being in his word is definitely helpful and You know just being around people that know me and love me and that can remind me of who I am. I recently had a conversation with a friend cause I was feeling this like unsettledness of like, what am I doing? What am I even doing with my life anymore? I've been out of ministry for two years. I really haven't found. Place to like serve, at church regularly. What, what am I doing? What am I supposed to be doing? And so we sat there and we kind of hashed it out and I told her some things that I really love to do. And she just reminded me of the things that I'm really good at and the ways that God's gifted me. And I left that conversation just really refreshed and grateful. first of all, that I have a friend like that, that, will just pour truth into me. but then secondly, just. Like knowing like, okay, God, like, and I know these are my gifts. I know this is the stuff I'm good at. I know this is the way that you've made me and you've created me. So I'm just going to wait. I'm just going to sit here and wait and see what's next. And I know that you know best, and I know that your timing is the best. And so we're just going to sit here and we're just going to be like, okay, let's just take it day

Juli: 17:00

by day. Yes. And wait is a good word. I liked how you said, what's my place that I think that's probably words to a question that I felt, but didn't articulate what's my place. And I, and I hope that comes from a motive of, I want to be used by you, Lord. I want to contribute. I want that to be holy in my motivation. Not like, but nobody sees me. But I'm invisible. Yeah. You know, those are some, those are, those are unique to me, maybe not unique to me, but particular to me when I was a younger person feeling invisible, feeling forgotten. Now people in my life, my family, they never, I don't think they thought that, I felt that way, nor did I exhibit that. And they certainly didn't make me feel that way. It was just the enemy, you know, being jerky. But now here it comes again. Right. You're invisible. You're on scene. You don't have a place, not only is it just kind of getting a really good hold on who God says we are as his chosen and our identity in him, that part's difficult enough, but then the words of the enemy saying all those other things around you, and maybe people in your own life too, I don't know. I don't know where people sit. You had wonderful friend around you, to tell you truth. Hopefully we have family, but some of us don't, I mean, we're clinging to Jesus for all we got and we need his word. And we talked about that. What are some things that we do? And we actually asked, we put it out on socials and said, what do some of you do when this is how you're feeling that your spiritual identity is being challenged and you're doubting? And as you had said, Bible reading, right? going to church, listening to worship prayer for sure. Especially well. All the time. But if you don't have kind of that community around you, and then a few people, you know, threw in some things, into the ring that I thought that's so good. I mean, all of those are good and we should be doing those spiritual disciplines. But we had talked about this, you and I, that one person talked about, they just jump into the use of their spiritual gifts and And that reminds him that I have a purpose. God gave me a spiritual gift of service or hospitality or teaching. And I'm going to do that to just kind of come back home to who I am in Christ and who he says I am. I thought that was fantastic. And just like a little side note. spiritual gifts that are given to every believer, every Christ follower. We're not talking natural talents or abilities that we just have because God gave them to us from where we're born. We're talking specific spiritual gifts for the edifying and the building up of his kingdom and his people. So, and those can be found in a couple of places. So Romans 12, first Corinthians 12, there's some in Ephesians, some in Peter. So. And maybe I could even put in the show notes, like a link to a spiritual gifts inventory or survey that I've used in the past. There's probably several out there. So just moving in those gifts to just reinforce again in your mind that I, I am. I am treasured by the Lord and he chose this gift or gifts for me to move in. So one person said they just move in their spiritual gifts And then someone else said they just go to Hebrews 11. Which was so interesting. Yes, I liked this one too, yeah. Yeah, sometimes it is called the, Hall of Faith, rather than Hall of Fame, Of people who love Jesus, but they didn't do it all right, and they were broken in ways, but God used them, meaning as sometimes, whether it's a spiritual identity crisis because our jobs have changed or roles have changed, or it's because of something, maybe it's a, maybe it's a bump. Maybe it's bigger. Maybe it's a failure that through repentance. And asking forgiveness, we're still his, our identity's intact. So I thought that was awesome. The Hebrews 11 one. And then you talked about one of the last ones people mentioned when you went to lunch with your friend and she's like, this is who you are. This is who I see you to be. This is where your strengths are and where God moves your new giftingness. So community. To have community around us to help us remember who we are. and sometimes that doesn't mean that we're going to pop right back up with like rainbows and sunshine. Like sometimes it's just hard and you need someone to sit with you, to remind you of who you are, in your identity in Christ. So we're almost at time, which I can't believe. So you have anything you want to wrap us up with? Well, one thing I want to

Lele: 21:23

add is the thought of community. Because the episode previous to this one is Tally and she's talking about how to build community because I know that it can be so hard, but it is so very important. And so if you don't have those people in your lives, work hard to find them. It is work. but it is worth it. And like I said, like for me, when I'm feeling that way, that's, I mean, I go to. I go to him in prayer through his word and through his people. And so I think that that's just important for us to remember that, yes, it is going to be hard work, but it's worth it. So go, go find some friends.

Juli: 22:03

Yeah, it is. And if you didn't get to listen to the episode, please do it's on tally and it's about community. and she has some great biblical like insight and foundation on that as well as kind of like the science behind that. And the reinforcement of that. So yes. So thank you everybody for joining us today. Again, if you like what you heard, please go and subscribe to us where and listen, of course, wherever you get your podcast. So until next time, blessings.