Kay Tally - Crisis Care Clinician and Therapist

Today on the podcast Juli interviews Kay Tally, a Crisis Care Clinician, about what community is and why it matters. Tally communicates the science and the biblical premise behind our need for community. She also shares suggestions on how to find community and how she personally puts that into practice. If you have been longing for a community, I think this episode will be helpful. You're not alone in your desire for a network of people that make life sweeter. So come relax at the Table for an insightful, deep, and practical episode of My Tennessee Table. 

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Transcript

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Welcome back to my Tennessee table. In today's episode, Julie has a very candid conversation with Tally, a crisis care clinician and therapist at a college here in Nashville, Tennessee. Their conversation was super helpful for me. Tally shares some of the science behind how we are created for community, how to find community and how she personally puts that into practice. I know you'll find it really helpful if you've found yourself in a place where you're looking for community. I hope you guys enjoy this as much as I did. Welcome to my Tennessee table. I get to have a sit down with a new friend of mine, Kay Talley, and get to learn more about her. And I know a little bit, but I'm so anxious for you to share more about yourself and your insight so welcome to you. You go by tally, so welcome tally. Yes. So glad to have you a little last name in there. Yes. Say that again. A good little last name in there. Mm-Hmm. It's a great last name and a first name Yeah. That you use it for. So tell us a little bit about you. How long have you been Tennessee and where have you relocated from? Because I know you're new-ish. Yes. So I have officially been in Tennessee for six months. Mm. Five months. and I relocated from Lakeland, Florida. Okay. Yeah. And tell us a little bit. Locale. Where's that? Around? Yes. Nearest place. So it's right in between Orlando and Tampa. Okay. If you blink, you miss it. Perfect Mix of short drive to Disney, but also a short drive to the beach. Very good, very good. Okay, so since you've been here, is there anything. that you really have embraced, you love it like food or culture or tradition, any of those types of things. Or maybe you have your own thing. I. Yes. So I love being a downtown girly. Mm-Hmm. Um, in Florida I lived in a cute little historic downtown, and so now I get to live in another cute historic downtown. And I think one of the differences that I've seen is Tennessee is very neighborly. Everyone knows everyone. And even if you live 20 minutes away, you're still considered a neighbor. And it's just this small town, community and family focus versus. I'm commuting an hour into a city and I come back to be quiet and alone. Yeah. You were just telling me this morning while we prepped for this, and again, you've not been here very long. Yeah. But you've mentioned eight neighbors. Yes. That you know already. Yes. Right. And I think that, and we're gonna come to find out. That largely has to do with you and your intentionality, but also I think that, welcoming neighborly kind of environment that we have found, which is such a gift, right. And such a blessing. So tell us a little bit about what you do professionally and your road. That kind of got you there because you have, um, shared some stories about your time as a ra. I was an ra. I was an rd. Yes. Keep moving up. Yeah. That is just really interesting and applies to your expertise that we're gonna end up talking about yeah. So tell us a little bit about that and your road that got you to where you are right now. Yes. So I currently serve as a crisis counselor on a college campus, and that was never the original goal. I started off thinking I was gonna be a pediatric heart surgeon, and I always laugh and say I just work on a different type of heart now. Um, but I had started college and I had a wonderful work study boss and a few weeks into classes she looked at me and she said. Without telling me your major, tell me what you wanna do with your life. And I looked at her and said, I wanna make a lot of money and give it to people who help. Oh. And she looked at me and she's like, why don't you just help them yourself? You wanna be a social worker? Mm-Hmm. And I was kinda like, Linda, you have a point. I don't, I don't wanna listen to your point, but you do have a point. So a couple weeks in, ended up switching majors. Loved it. Oh goodness. Came time to graduate was supposed to go on to Baylor. Mm-Hmm. To get my master's in social work. Mm-Hmm. And all of a sudden it just felt like the Lord was telling me, Nope. You need to stay and you need to build a community. Which was a foreign concept to me. And looking back, that's when the world shut down. That is when Covid happened, right? I would have been in a new town with new people without community,$40,000 in debt. Not being able to fully interact with the program that I had signed up for. And instead I stayed and I made friends. Yes. Which is so silly to think of. And then along the way I was like, okay, it's time for my next step. And I knew I wanted to work with college students. Mm-Hmm. So I applied for a job in Florida as a resident director. 30 minute interview later. Got it. Oh my gosh. Moved in the middle of Covid and when I got there I realized, no, I still want to pursue this clinical side. So got my master's in social work while I was doing it. Couple jobs in between and here I am. Yes. And here you are. Yeah. And now, currently, what is your title and where are you at? Yes, so I am full official long title crisis Clinician and Care. Counselor, I think is officially what they call me. Mm-Hmm. Crisis counselor for sure. Up the road at Belmont. Very good. Well, so that explains a little bit about you and as we had met for The first time a couple weeks ago and had coffee and we naturally got around to this conversation about community, about how the lord through someone else kind of put that on your heart to build that community. Mm-hmm. Right. And to be kind of a, what do I wanna say? A facilitator of that, or a conduit of that. So, and that naturally couples of course, with how you. Ended up professionally. So when we think about community and I think the table by, it's just kind of. Natural essence of it does gather people right? Mm-Hmm. and it looks like it should be community and a lot of ways it fosters that. So I wanna get to the table side of it in a little bit. But first, how about we just kind of build out that word community a little bit? Yeah. kind of like we did when we had coffee together. So, how would you define it? Or what would community, what does that look like for someone? I think people have an idea of what that is, but if you could define it, how would you. How would you do that? I think to me, community is that group of people. That are not going anywhere. They're in your life, for better or worse, they are the people that when you have a flight tire, you can call them Mm-Hmm. Instead of having to use your aaa. Right. They're the people where when you're sick, they're bringing over a meal. They're the people who you truly allow to know you and you pursue knowing them. But they're also the people that you engage with conflict in, and you get closer because of it instead of farther. So I think to me, community is that network of people that makes. Life easier and life worth living. I like the word pursue and we'll probably dive a little more into that. Maybe not that word specifically, but what that word means. Yeah. And how we pursue community.'cause I think there's a conception too, depending on maybe personality or environment or. Background or however, whether we pursue or whether we have an expectation and hope that someone will pursue us. Yeah, and maybe we, maybe we have both, but we'll kinda get into that a little bit more. But is there like a magic number of people then you can say, check now I have community, so it, it kind of makes me think of two different things. On the opposite side of community, I think of the experience of loneliness. Mm-Hmm. And so we kind of see two different aspects of loneliness. We see reactive or responsive loneliness where you just move six months ago. Mm. Of course you don't know anyone. That's pretty okay. In normal. But then we also have that chronic loneliness where. You just go years at a time without feeling like anyone knows you. And I think when you experience that loneliness, community can feel like one or two people, and that can be your life raft. But then on the other end, we are also biologically wired. To only support about 150 relationships. I remember you saying this and thinking, oh, do I have that many and how am I doing with my 150? Yes. If I have'em? Okay. Some people think that number is so small and restrictive and other people think it's expansive and as though they'll never fill it. And so it's even interesting to see people's reaction to that. Mm-Hmm. We also talked about, you called it clocked hours. Yes. So when we speak of clock, hour, clocked hours, And, um, the nature of a relationship, build that out for us. That was so interesting and totally made sense. You put words around, what we shared about how I've spent time with,'cause I'm recently new here as well. Mm-Hmm. Two years in Mm-Hmm. And I was sharing with you, I just really feel like. Just recently, have I met the tipping point? Yeah. In some relationships where I feel like it's not, it's not as protective on my part. Yes. It's more vulnerable. It's easy. we've gone through some conflict. Mm-Hmm. So talk a little bit about that. That was so good. The clocked hours. Yes. And I think talking through all the scientific piece, it can make relationships feel cold, but it can also just allow you to give yourself so much grace. Mm-Hmm. When we look at developing friendships. There comes a time where you have to put in that effort to spend time with somebody so they become a friend, and it's generally seen that between 40 and 60 hours of time spent with someone, they become a casual friend. Or a qualifying friend, so this is my friend from work, or this is my friend from pickup line, or this is my friend from church, and you place them in the context that you know them. Then from there, it takes about 80 to a hundred hours for somebody to just be considered a friend. No qualifiers. That's when you're growing in that vulnerability. And over 200 hours of time spent with somebody for them to be considered a close friend. Oh my. I know. Mm-Hmm. It's wild. Mm-Hmm. So to think that you have to intentionally clock those hours Have that face-to-face that shoulder to shoulder time with somebody so that you can grow in that vulnerability. And I think sometimes people think, well, if I can just be vulnerable with somebody up front, we're immediately gonna be best friends. It does happen sometimes. I think we said a lot in faith communities and there's something to be said about that pace vulnerability over time. Mm-hmm. And growing in that comfortability and knowing. The little things about someone before you know the big things about someone. Mm-Hmm. Okay. Say that again? The pace, pace vulnerability. This is, this is what I meant about putting words to something that we feel, or that we're in the middle of where we have, maybe we are new somewhere. Mm-Hmm. And maybe we just start a college and we have, you know, a new set of friends to make. Yeah. Or a new job. new neighborhood. And you do. kind of mentally, have the list of people where I'm really comfortable with Margaret. Yeah. It's not quite there yet with Mary, but I'm gonna spend some time and it, it just makes sense to me. Okay. Tell a little bit about women. And being face to face. Mm-Hmm. And spending our time together. Now I know we have, men and women join community and have birthdays or celebrations or just a Tuesday night with the neighbors. Impromptu, but I think it, it really, was interesting women. Getting together in community. Mm-Hmm. And men and kind of how they naturally are wired to build community. It maybe not exclusively right. but yes, it's definitely a fluid experience. Mm-Hmm. And it's not because you have this identity, this is how you must operate in the world. Right. But when we look at that number of 150 relationships is what we can support. That's. Research done by someone with the last name Dunbar. And it stands the test of time. Even when we look at social media and LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram and how you may be following thousands of people, those don't count. It's 150 people that you have regular in-person interactions with. That's a good definition. Yes. And that number kind of started when we study. How we used to live in villages and communities. Like, we even think about it when people say it takes a village to raise. A kid. Mm-Hmm. It's true. And so where that number came from is villages formed because of the resources that land could support. They couldn't live in larger groups in that because they legitimately could not survive if there was more people than about 150 And when you look at how relationships were built in villages, the women, they had to form those interpersonal relationships over talking and tasks and sitting together and communicating with each other's kids. And so women really had those face-to-face interactions like we are now sitting across the table from each other. But also for that village to exist, men had to go out and hunt and they had to be shoulder to shoulder and quiet and focused on a task. And so we even see that now where women are usually sitting across from each other and men are usually side by side and women form relationships around. The emotions and the processing of experiences, whereas men forming relationships over pursuing a purpose or a task together, and it's usually less talking. But that goes back to that's how we literally had to survive. And that's still how we're surviving today. This makes so much sense. And it's interesting, like the next time you're at a mall or you're just out in public at a place where people meet up, you can legitimately look around you. So, how does community matter, like where is the beneficial We talked about, you know, back in the day when we survived in tribes and land only supported so many people. Of course, you know, it was valuable for survival for everyone. Yeah, of course. And, you know, our existence. But what is the value or the beneficial part for us now? And I'm thinking even like the social emotional, the physical, What, how do we see that? I, I'm guessing there's research around that. Yes. It, it's really interesting when, especially post covid, where people are looking at how does loneliness And just being an individual impact you overall. And it seemed to be linked with earlier mortality rates, and you're more likely to have dementia. And you're more likely to have heart disease. And so being by yourself. Actually causes physical deficits. And we even see when people research natural disasters or getting through a crisis, you're more likely to survive if you have one other person with you than if you are by yourself. So there is that key survival and physical health portion of it. There's also the relational aspect. And so there's this idea that we are wired for connection, but we also fall into patterns of protection. Where we are created to be in relationships with others, but things have happened in our life where relationships hurt. And so we go into these patterns of protection. And it's kind of held in our nervous system. There is something called the vagus nerve, and they say what happens in vagus stays in Vegas. And the same thing is true for that, where your body keeps record of all of the interactions you've ever had. And when something comes in to tell you This isn't safe, or I'm not comfortable. You protect yourself. Okay? And so you go into your lizard brain where you're scattered, or you go into your possum brain where you shut down. And that was helpful when we were in villages and a bear was coming in and we needed to protect ourselves. It's not helpful when your friend makes a hurtful comment. And the way to get out of that lizard brain or that possum brain and go back up to where you can rest and connect is to co-regulate with another human being. Which is exactly what you are hiding from. Mm-Hmm. Or protecting yourself from Yes. But is actually the remedy. Yes. So when we see that experience of anxiety or that experience of depression, we need people to show us, Hey, the threat that you feel right now. It may feel really real and I'm right here with you and you're safe. And I'm right here with you and you can stay in this moment. And you don't have to jump to the future, and you don't have to think back on the past. Because we are right here, right now. And as humans, we need relationships to co-regulate. Yeah. Very good. So that's the scientific side of it. I'm gonna define it like that. Yes. And, and you love Jesus. Mm-Hmm. I know that you have a relationship with him and so biblically on that side of it. Did God create us? For community and, and what does that, what does that mean, So I, I mean, I think we go back to creation and we see where it says. Man shouldn't live by himself. And I think sometimes as women we can say, well, he didn't say women can't live by themselves, but we, we truly do need each other. And I think of even verses of iron sharpens iron. Mm-Hmm. So women sharpens another And plans fail for lack of counsel. And we're two or more gathered. It is done. And like, don't neglect meeting together and encouraging each other and bringing each other up. And so I see time and time again where it says you need people in your life. And I think it, it shows us where we're at, that it feels miraculous to have people in our lives. But I also think about how I've seen that in my own life of. When I was considering making the move from Florida to Texas, I got together what I call Tally's Life Council. They got a Google Doc that had all the information in it. They knew my finances. They knew why I was considering leaving, why I was considering going. They had Instagram links for all of the churches around where I would live, and they sat with me and they processed. They fully knew me. And they had open access to every part of my life. And they sat there and they said, okay, I can see why you would think that this is a selfish decision based off of this. However, this is also what I see in you. And I think that there's something so special about not having to be alone. Like of all of the things you can be alone is not one of them. You have so many options and opportunities and how beautiful it is to have people in your life help you navigate that. It makes life feel like it's not something to be fought, but it's something to be enjoyed. Yes. Thank you for sharing that story. You created the community prior. So at that moment you could have community right. To sit with you, with your Google Doc and look through things and pray with you and be honest and be encouraging. Yeah. And, knowing that we're not having to make sometimes, I mean, this is a life decision. Mm-Hmm. Alone. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Are there other reasons why sometimes we just unbeknownst to ourselves, we've created this little shelf for ourselves and we're not asking or seeking? I think of a quote from, I believe it's Kurt Thompson. he says, from the beginning of our lives, we've been looking for someone who's looking for us. Mm. And I think that goes back to what you said at the beginning of, we want to be invited. And it takes a lot of courage and boldness to be the inviter. And there's this concept that. People think they're gonna stumble upon community, but community is rarely found and it's often forged. And so there is a really vulnerable aspect to having to be the person that reaches out. And there's a lot of stories that we can begin to believe when somebody says no. Of, Hey, having dinner at my home this Friday, you're welcome to join if you want. And then you get eight texts back that say, actually I can't. I'm busy. And to see. Oh, everyone else already kind of has their life happening. And I'm the only one who's experiencing this, so I can't let them know that. And so I think it takes a lot of strength and a lot of boldness and recognizing that when you are the inviter, when people say, Hey, I can't tonight, but that says nothing about you, and kind of undoing those narratives and recognizing. I can be the host. Mm-Hmm. And it won't always be like this, right? Like I want to be invited and over time as I clock those hours, that reciprocity is going to increase. Mm-Hmm. And right now I have to work to spark the fire. And find somebody who will help me kindle it. Yes. I know you are part of a group. I have what I call my internet friends. Because we met on Instagram and it was just somebody who said, life is better when I have female friends that love Jesus. So I'm gonna plan. To hang outs a month. Yeah. And if you wanna come, you can come. And then I have my church group friends, which is kind of same stage of life co-Ed group. And then I have my women's group friends. Who some are the same stage of life. Some of them are a season ahead. Some of them are seasons ahead. Yeah. You have some great community. Yeah. In six months. Yeah. You've put yourself in a place where community can happen. So if you could give like practical tip to just encourage or to help people do that invite, and it, it doesn't have to be 50 people, it doesn't have to be five people, but what would be kind of a practical idea or step to just help people, to invite people to their space, I think it goes back to that idea of hope. Mm-Hmm. And how for a lot of people, this might be a new beginning and new beginnings are exciting. Like we think of spring and how the world comes back alive. And we think of starting a new program or starting a new job and all of the hope that's in that. And I think what we forget is new beginnings also offer us a chance to be a beginner. And so recognizing that. If this is the first time you are inviting somebody to your table, that you're allowing them to step into your world, you're not meeting them at a coffee shop out in the world, They're coming to yours. You're gonna be a beginner. And it's gonna be weird. And it's gonna be uncomfortable. It is a little weird. You're right. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for just saying it. Yes. It's gonna, it's gonna be awkward and. That is also a really great shared experience.'cause as much as it feels cringey for you, it likely feels cringey for them too. And you get to go through that together. And knowing that you don't have to have it all together. I think of some of the homes that I've been invited into, the ones where I feel the most comfortable are the ones where there are socks on the floor. And there are dishes in the sink. Because it shows me, okay, someone lives here and I can live alongside them. Mm-Hmm. So I think. Just don't overthink it. Just put some cookies in the oven. Have some hot water. It doesn't have to be extravagant. And recognize that it is very different. It's not common. People I think, are more likely to go out in the world than invite people into our homes. But recognizing like you can make that different and you can be the one that says No. If my home is not a place for me to retreat, it's a place for me to connect. And recognizing that it's gonna be really weird to begin with. And that's okay. So just. Be weird, be awkward with it and bring some whimsy to it too. I think back to when I was supposed to move and I just felt God saying, no, you need to stay and build community. And it felt so foreign of community's not gonna make me money. Why? Why would I do this? Recognizing, like, no, okay, we're gonna stay and we're gonna make friends as simple and elementary as that sounds. And so meeting up with some other ladies in a church lobby one Sunday where all of them had been talking about wanting that intentional community and just making a list of like, okay, who have we heard talk about wanting friends and wanting community. Mm-Hmm. And just sending the text. Saying, Hey. We're gonna start meeting every Tuesday. I'm sending you a Google form so that you can say what you want from this space. And then getting together, and I remember it probably was a few weeks in. We always had like questions that we used to check in with each other. And we had a rule that you could only share once until everyone shared, and then if you had something else that came up, you could ask to share again. And we even had rules on how many times you could miss. And if you missed more than that. Sorry, this isn't for you. Mm-Hmm. So it felt really intense. But it was also really healthy. In a sense. So I remember I had shared that day, everyone went around and they had shared, and the entire time that they were giving their updates. I was so angry. They were each like, oh yeah. So Hannah and I did this this week, and then Kimberly and I did this. Oh yeah. And Mallory and I went and did this, and at the end I was like, I know I already shared, but can I share again? And I just started sobbing. And I said, I have to ask for your forgiveness.'cause the entire time that you guys have been talking, I've been really angry with you. Mm-Hmm. And they're all like, what? And I said, every single one of you talked about how you hung out with somebody outside of group. And I didn't know that any of it was happening and I wasn't invited. And I said, part of me asking who would be a part of this is because we need friends and I don't feel like I've been included in that. And they all looked at me and they said, well, you're busy. And I said, what do you mean? They said, well, you always talk about all of the things that you have going on in your life and all the things you're doing in the evening and how crazy work is. We just didn't think that you had time or that you wanted to be invited. And I just sat there and I apologized and I said, I am so sorry. If that is the image that I've given you, and I'm sorry that it feels like my life hasn't had room for you, but I would really like to be invited. And so it was one of those moments where it felt so vulnerable and so cringey as a grown adult to say, I'm mad with you because you didn't eat with me. But also, I didn't realize the image I was portraying. Right. I didn't realize that as I talked about how crazy and busy life was. That I was closing myself off to people'cause they didn't think I needed them, when really I needed them. And I think that that moment had been a catalyst of figuring out what does it look like to live a full life instead of a busy life. And how do you. Have things that are scheduled and continue to go on, but be intentional about do it with people. And what does that look like? And sitting around that table in that circle with those girls once a week for four, almost five years. It really. Showed me the importance of having people in your life, And to be able to be honest. That deeply honest. Yeah. And then to have the response back of the why. Yeah. To asking otherwise we can make up our own thoughts on the why. Mm-Hmm. I wasn't included. Right. Or invited. They don't think I'm fun. They don't wanna spend time with me. They don't think of me. And. In all reality, they were thinking of me with kindness.'cause they were thinking, she's so busy, I don't wanna add something else onto her plate. Right. When honestly, I wasn't being kind to them by communicating what I needed and wanted and hoped from them. Mm-Hmm. Well, I have heard the quote, and I think it's Brene Brown that says, clear is kind and unclear is unkind. And, and you were clear. And they were clear. Kindness to yourself, but kindness to one another. I really appreciate Bob Goff took that quote one step further. And he says, clarity is kindness and clarity should not be confused with certainty where things were made very clear in that moment. And there wasn't certainty that I was gonna be met with relationship. There wasn't certainty that I was gonna end up being invited, but without that clarity. If there never would've been the opportunity given to them to know how I was feeling, and there would never have been the opportunity for me to know how I was being perceived. Very good. Thank you for sharing that. thank you so much for coming today. Yes. We'll probably have you back and I look forward to our, friendship clocking hours. Yes. As we grow closer to becoming better friends. So I love it. Thank you so much, tally. Thank you.